Athiest vs Christian

[invol.uncelibate]

Are you athiest or Christian. Why? Why is the other side wrong?

Muslims, Jews, Hindus: come for another conversation, please.

I have been athiest my whole life. But I am starting to understand the importance of the divine and spiritual figures of the gospel. As well as, I'm seeing the problems with athiesm. Battle it out.

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Battle it out.

This is the problem with atheists, you see us vs them, I don't battle. I never push my faith onto anyone, it's my faith. There is no battle to be won, you are either a believer or you aren't, all there is.

 

[thickdickdaddy27]

there’s a higher power sure, but the god concept is highly unlikely imo

 

[invol.uncelibate]

This is the problem with atheists, you see us vs them, I don't battle. I never push my faith onto anyone, it's my faith. There is no battle to be won, you are either a believer or you aren't, all there is.

Normie mindset. If you are strong in your beliefs you would see importance in convincing others to believe the same.

 

[HarrierDuBois]

Normie mindset. If you are strong in your beliefs you would see importance in convincing others to believe the same.

No, if you ARE strong in your beliefs you don't have to push it onto anyone else. Pushing it onto others confirms you can't stand alone in what you believe in and need peer pressure to be a believer.

 

[dimorphism]

atheist bcuz religion is too restrictive. no proof and shit

 

[invol.uncelibate]

there’s a higher power sure, but the god concept is highly unlikely imo

I don't believe the Christian God literally exists. But he figuratively exists and is important in his existence. He is perfect and we should strive to be seen by him.

 

[thickdickdaddy27]

I don't believe the Christian God literally exists. But he figuratively exists and is important in his existence. He is perfect and we should strive to be seen by him.

Yeah but you can be a good person without religion. The people who think religion dictates morals are legit evil

 

[invol.uncelibate]

No, if you ARE strong in your beliefs you don't have to push it onto anyone else. Pushing it onto others confirms you can't stand alone in what you believe in and need peer pressure to be a believer.

False. Do you think if everybody held your beliefs, society would be better off? Do you think those individuals would be better off? If so, and you do not make an attempt to lead those around you to the light, then you are either unconfident with your beliefs, unassertive, or don't care about society/ your peers.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Yeah but you can be a good person without religion. The people who think religion dictates morals are legit evil

You can be. But your morals are still lose and you are more likely to break your own moral code. An athiest gets their morals from an athiest who gets their morals from an athiest... leading back to a religious person. A religious person gets their morals from scripture. Do you see how an athiests morals would be twisted and loose over generations of passing down morals?

 

[invol.uncelibate]

atheist bcuz religion is too restrictive. no proof and shit

Just because it is not literally true doesn't mean it isn't figuratively true, or important. Maybe restriction is good. Maybe lack of restriction leads to lack of self control. Yeah?

 

[vanillaicecream]

Why? Why is the other side wrong?

Hmm because bronze/iron age fables involving magic and other impossible unprecedented absurdities never witnessed by anyone, with moral teachings that reflect the principles of that specific period in time can clearly not be the ultimate truth of the universe and our existence? Also the sheer amount of religions which shows that humans just have a tendency to make up gods that reflect their own culture and desires? It's pretty easy to figure this out, basic common sense.

 

[thickdickdaddy27]

You can be. But your morals are still lose and you are more likely to break your own moral code. An athiest gets their morals from an athiest who gets their morals from an athiest... leading back to a religious person. A religious person gets their morals from scripture. Do you see how an athiests morals would be twisted and loose over generations of passing down morals?

philosophy rabbit hole tbh i don’t like to discuss this line of thinking.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

philosophy rabbit hole tbh i don’t like to discuss this line of thinking.

Haha why not?

 

[thickdickdaddy27]

Haha why not?

Too low iq lol

 

[IHateMyself]

@BibleBelieving is my god

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Hmm because bronze/iron age fables involving magic and other impossible unprecedented absurdities never witnessed by anyone, with moral teachings that reflect the principles of that specific period in time can clearly not be the ultimate truth of the universe and our existence? Also the sheer amount of religions which shows that humans just have a tendency to make up gods that reflect their own culture and desires? It's pretty easy to figure this out, basic common sense.

I'm writing an essay about why religion is necessary for a society to function properly. You have correctly identified that humans have a religious tendency. You have incorrectly implied that this is something to condemn. Religion is everywhere, it either gives people grounded morals, or it gives people loose morals. This is the true difference between Christianity and areligiosity.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

@BibleBelieving is my god

Some dude

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Too low iq lol

I think it's the opposite, my man

 

[vanillaicecream]

I'm writing an essay about why religion is necessary for a society to function properly.

This can be debunked by simply pointing out that highly secular societies such as nordic countries have the lowest rates of crime in the world. It depends on your definition of what "a society that functions properly" looks like but this is a good start to show that it's by no means an entirely accurate line of thought.

 

[vanillaicecream]

I'm writing an essay about why religion is necessary for a society to function properly. You have correctly identified that humans have a religious tendency. You have incorrectly implied that this is something to condemn. Religion is everywhere, it either gives people grounded morals, or it gives people loose morals. This is the true difference between Christianity and areligiosity.

also you seem to be touching on the issue of whether or not it's personally beneficial for humans to believe in a God rather than whether or not the premise of the belief system is objectively true. I'm getting at it more from a place of whether the premise of christianity is true and their god is real, I dont care if it makes people feel good and behave.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

This can be debunked by simply pointing out that highly secular societies such as nordic countries have the lowest rates of crime in the world. It depends on your definition of what "a society that functions properly" looks like but this is a good start to show that it's by no means an entirely accurate line of thought.

Which countries? Iceland (over 70% religious, mostly abrahamic)? Switzerland(75% religious, mostly abrahamic)? Even the non religious people are closely tied to religious morals due to high percentage of religious people.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Which countries? Iceland (over 70% religious, mostly abrahamic)? Switzerland(75% religious, mostly abrahamic)? Even the non religious people are closely tied to religious morals due to high percentage of religious people.

Denmark, Sweden, Norway. These are the some of the very most peaceful and safe countries last time i checked and I didnt say other countries that are mostly religious can't also be safe and that all countries with low criminal activity are secular, It's just that having some examples of this shows that religion isn't absolutely necessary for moral behavior and that it's possible to maintain order without it.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

also you seem to be touching on the isie of whether or not it's personally beneficial for humans to believe in a God rather than whether or not the premise of the belief system is objectively true. I'm getting at it more from a place of whether the premise of christianity is true and their god is real, I dont care if it makes people feel good and behave.

Yes. I do not believe that the Christian God literally exists as a person that created us. He exists as a character. Why would you not care if he makes society as a whole, better? Are you saying he could make everybody around you happier and behave better, and you wouldn't care? You would be hung up on convincing people that he doesn't exist? It seems as though you need to dig a little deeper, me boy. He exists. He is perfection.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Yes. I do not believe that the Christian God literally exists as a person that created us. He exists as a character. Why would you not care if he makes society as a whole, better? Are you saying he could make everybody around you happier and behave better, and you wouldn't care? You would be hung up on convincing people that he doesn't exist? It seems as though you need to dig a little deeper, me boy. He exists. He is perfection.

Behaving better = talking to yourself in times of need and adversity hoping that an invisible magical being will intervene and make it all better as opposed to taking action and trying to figure out real solutions and ways to help? Or shoving into people's heads the idea that they will burn forever because they don't subscribe to the same belief system?

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Denmark, Sweden, Norway. These are the some of the very most peaceful and safe countries last time i checked and I didnt say other countries that are mostly religious can't also be safe and that all countries with low criminal activity are secular, It's just that having some examples of this shows that religion isn't absolutely necessary for moral behavior and that it's possible to maintain order without it.

Denmark, over 75% Christian. Norway around 75% christian. Sweden.... 65% Christian? Wow it's almost like the one country with a 10% drop is the only one with a movement where people want to save it. The loose morals led to being too liberal, which led to allowing too many immigrants in. I'm saying every example of a great society in Europe that u give me, they are a Christian society. So much so, that even the athiests will be heavily morally guided by religious people.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Behaving better = talking to yourself in times of need and adversity hoping that an invisible magical being will intervene and make it all better as opposed to taking action and trying to figure out real solutions and ways to help? Or shoving into people's heads the idea that they will burn forever because they don't subscribe to the same belief system?

Basing morality off of scripture leaves people with grounded sense of morality and existence. A society where people lack objectiveness in belief and behaviour is bound to fall apart.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Behaving better = talking to yourself in times of need and adversity hoping that an invisible magical being will intervene and make it all better as opposed to taking action and trying to figure out real solutions and ways to help? Or shoving into people's heads the idea that they will burn forever because they don't subscribe to the same belief system?

Did u think u could catch me with your slightly above average iq. Even if I'm wrong I will still win the debate.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Denmark, over 75% Christian. Norway around 75% christian. Sweden.... 65% Christian? Wow it's almost like the one country with a 10% drop is the only one with a movement where people want to save it. The loose morals led to being too liberal, which led to allowing too many immigrants in. I'm saying every example of a great society in Europe that u give me, they are a Christian society. So much so, that even the athiests will be heavily morally guided by religious people.

These countries are not mostly religious jfl I think there might have been a mistake on my part when naming Denmark is highly and mostly secular but I'm pretty sure I was correct in regards to Sweden and Norway. Sweden was a Christian country in like the 16th century. You must've looked up surveys that asked whether they believe in a higher power or something. The point that religion is not inherently necessary for order and moral behavior, it could be the case that all of these safe and mostly crime-free countries were Christian by majority and it still wouldn't speak to christianity being necessary for a society with good moral principles, it's just part of a culture and a traditional belief that grew over the years. It's correlation and not causation.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Basing morality off of scripture leaves people with grounded sense of morality and existence. A society where people lack objectiveness in belief and behaviour is bound to fall apart.

No, morality basically comes from a projection of what we would or would not like done to us given a healthy and normal brain wiring. It's a result of us being a social species and being willing to cooperate with one other so that we can thrive as a society over the long run. It's basically a requirement for a society of intelligent beings, with no sense of good morals and order we would collapse. You really think we couldn't have figured this out by ourselves without scriptures and beliefs in higher beings? The fact that we need to display and practice good morality and cooperation for survival and success? It's evolution.

 

[vanillaicecream]

Did u think u could catch me with your slightly above average iq. Even if I'm wrong I will still win the debate.

As if... I can promptly whip out a rebuttal to all of the fallacious and corrosive talking points in favor of christianity. Never has someone arguing from a Christian standpoint come even remotely close to making me scratch my head.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

No, morality basically comes from a projection of what we would or would not like done to us given a healthy and normal brain wiring. It's a result of us being a social species and being willing to cooperate with one other so that we can thrive as a society over the long run. It's basically a requirement for a society of intelligent beings, with no sense of good morals and order we would collapse. You really think we couldn't have figured this out by ourselves without scriptures and beliefs in higher beings? The fact that we need to display and practice good morality and cooperation for survival and success? It's evolution.

1: I once had the exact same beliefs and talking points as you. Scratch ur head at that.
2: We are all religious to something. In a purely fundamental society, there are dominant people, and submissive people. The submissive people either wish to be dominant people or wish to have the dominant people think highly of them. The dominant people are decisive, and strong with their beliefs. Do you see how the submissive people become religious to the dominant people. They turn the dominant people into their religious figurehead. Since we have this religious tendency, when a group of people write down their will and morals, they convince people that this is the will of God and the morals he has. People see this God as a dominant person(religious figurehead/idol) that they want to become or be seen in good light by. So, they stick to the moral code that is written.
In an athiest society, people idolize other people, or fictional versions of themselves. They send all of their religious energy to this idol. And they want to become this person or be in good light by them. Over generations of getting their morals from the last athiest, you would think the morals would chnage heavily, right? The LGBTq is a prominently athiest society. It started off with the morals of, "let people do what they want, as long as they don't harm anybody" but they didn't see that letting them do what they want DID harm people. So the next generation of faggots came, they shared the same morals. This time, however, due to group think and lack of grounding in scripture, their message was skewed. They let more and more types of people do what they wanted, and they slightly lacked emphasis on "unless it harms people". This slight chnage has led to PEDOPHILIA.

 

[vanillaicecream]

The LGBTq is a prominently athiest society.

Very false.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Very false.

Just because there are old religious guys that like boys doesn't mean they are active members of the lgbtq community

 

[BibleBelieving]

@BibleBelieving is my god

Not good. This is blasphemy.

 

[orangomango2003]

i'm an atheist because i'm high IQ. it's not a coincidence that most high IQ people don't believe in god.

"IQ scores were significantly lower (ps < 0.001) for Christian/Catholic participants (EMM = 96.7) compared to both Atheist (EMM = 104.9) and Agnostic participants (EMM = 107.5)."

religion is cope..

 

[invol.uncelibate]

i'm an atheist because i'm high IQ. it's not a coincidence that most high IQ people don't believe in god.

"IQ scores were significantly lower (ps < 0.001) for Christian/Catholic participants (EMM =

What's your iq, retard?

 

[Deleted member 21898]

I have been athiest my whole life. But I am starting to understand the importance of the divine and spiritual figures of the gospel. As well as, I'm seeing the problems with athiesm. Battle it out.

You can acknowledge the importance of Christian morality all you want, but that doesn't necessarily mean that atheism is wrong or that God exists. Atheism doesn't have anything to do with morality, nor does it force you to behave in a certain way. Atheism is just the disbelief in God, you don't have to believe in God in order to be moral. You can still use religion as a guide in life without believing that God exists.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

You can acknowledge the importance of Christian morality all you want, but that doesn't necessarily mean that atheism is wrong or that God exists. Atheism doesn't have anything to do with morality, nor does it force you to behave in a certain way. Atheism is just the disbelief in God, you don't have to believe in God in order to be moral. You can still use religion as a guide in life without believing that God exists.

Following religion is believing that God exists. I believe that God exists as a character. Heaven and hell are metaphors for your life. And morality is a tool to get to "heaven" (aka a blissful life.) Sinning will take you to "hell" (aka an awful life .) One person can be moral without religion. But most people that speak English have western morals which are completely derived from the Bible. A society that eradicated Christianity will stray further and further from what you would call moral, generationaly.

 

[Roquefort]

No, if you ARE strong in your beliefs you don't have to push it onto anyone else. Pushing it onto others confirms you can't stand alone in what you believe in and need peer pressure to be a believer.

Well said boyo u got my vote

 

[Deleted member 21898]

Following religion is believing that God exists. I believe that God exists as a character. Heaven and hell are metaphors for your life. And morality is a tool to get to "heaven" (aka a blissful life.) Sinning will take you to "hell" (aka an awful life .) One person can be moral without religion. But most people that speak English have western morals which are completely derived from the Bible. A society that eradicated Christianity will stray further and further from what you would call moral, generationaly.

An atheist person can view religion as a manmade book that can be used for moral guidance, is there anything that can stop them from doing that? It is not impossible to be atheist and follow religion at the same time, in fact there are many atheistic religions that are not founded on faith in an ultimate creator (Buddhism, jainism, taoism, daoism, confucianism, etc). There's also something called Christian atheism:

Christian atheism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Deleted member 21898]

A society that eradicated Christianity will stray further and further from what you would call moral, generationaly.

Societies like North Korea disprove this, North Korea is a very traditional and moral society that doesn't believe in God.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Well said boyo u got my vote

Wrong

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Societies like North Korea disprove this, North Korea is a very traditional and moral society that doesn't believe in God.

No. This is impossible. If you follow a religion you are thiest. I do not belive that a God literally exists as a material being. But I am a thiest. Religious, Christian. I am not athiest. I believe in God. He is the perfect character.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Well said boyo u got my vote

I'm so tired of average iq normies that are so easily convinced by bullshit. You think he's right because he doubled down. He's completely mistaken. Somebody who regularly thinks about their beliefs and believes that everybody should believe what they believe is more likely to tell others and attempt to convince others. More likely than a person who is weak and unconfident in their beliefs. Do u rlly think ppl protesting and trying to convince others about any given topic aren't fully convinced on what theyre talking about? Thats absurd. And it's absurd u agreed with what he said.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

No, if you ARE strong in your beliefs you don't have to push it onto anyone else. Pushing it onto others confirms you can't stand alone in what you believe in and need peer pressure to be a believer.

Literally makes no sense. It's crazy that u said that. Think about what you just said, please.
Do you mean to suggest that a person that is protesting in favor of veganism, for example, is weak in their beliefs. Do you think they are not fully convinced that veganism is right?
Do you mean to suggest that a person who is convinced that reading Harry Potter is the key to life, for example, would not tell people that they need to read Harry Potter. Would they hold their tongue? This makes no fucking sense my brother.

 

[Deleted member 21898]

No. This is impossible. If you follow a religion you are thiest.

Give me an objective reason why it is not possible. There are religions that are not based on the belief in God, what's your explanation for them? Jainism believes that the universe has always existed for eternity without a creator. Christianity itself can be reformed into an atheistic religion. Religion is a nothing but a system of ethics.

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Give me an objective reason why it is not possible. There are religions that are not based on the belief in God, what's your explanation for them? Jainism believes that the universe has always existed for eternity without a creator. Christianity itself can be reformed into an atheistic religion.

Being religious does not dictate your belief in a literal divine creator.
An athiest cannot be religious or actively follow a religion or consciously use the religion as a moral guideline. This would make them THIEST. Okay? Theist = religious, Thiest ≠ athiest, therefore athiest ≠ religious. If you do not believe in a literal material God but you are a part of a religion (like me) you are not athiest, you are thiest, religious. Please genuinely respond saying you understand.

 

[Deleted member 21898]

Being religious does not dictate your belief in a literal divine creator.
An athiest cannot be religious or actively follow a religion or consciously use the religion as a moral guideline. This would make them THIEST. Okay? Theist = religious, Thiest ≠ athiest, therefore athiest ≠ religious. If you do not believe in a literal material God but you are a part of a religion (like me) you are not athiest, you are thiest, religious. Please genuinely respond saying you understand.

Definition of religion:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Or

2. "a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects"

This means that any specific set of beliefs and practices that are generally agreed upon by a number of people is considered a religion.
So if a number of atheists agree to follow any specific set of beliefs and practices that means they are following a religion.

Definition of theism:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism).

Theism ≠ Religion
Religion = a system of ethics and a set of fundamental beliefs and practices, sometimes this set of beliefs is be based on God, sometimes it is not

 

[invol.uncelibate]

Definition of religion:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Or

2. "a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects"

This means that any specific set of beliefs and practices that are generally agreed upon by a number of people is considered a religion.
So if a number of atheists agree to follow any specific set of beliefs and practices that means they are following a religion.

Definition of theism:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism).

Theism ≠ Religion
Religion = a system of ethics and a set of fundamental beliefs and practices

I clearly wasn't clear enough. I believe in God. Every religious person believes in the metaphorical, spiritual or literal figure of God. The only people who do not at least believe in the character of God are those unaware of its existence. A religious person believes in not only it's existence, but it's importance. Every religious person believes in the existence of god. Not necessarily a material cognitive creator of the universe.